
Traveller-digest      Friday, October 29 1999      Volume 1999 : Number 1276



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Traveller: Aberrant jump drives (was Re: Just say "no" to lhyd)
Re: Traveller economics
Re: Re: Traveller economics
Re: Yet more 3D work
Re: Yet more 3D work
Re: BD Crush Depth (was Freezing in the Aleutians)
RE:Fellow Traveller
Re: Shipping low-value goods (was Re: Just say 
RE: Taxation
Re: Just say "no" to lhy for Jump drives
RE: Taxation
Re: TML Members as resources
Re: Re Level 0 and CT 
Re: TML Members as resources
Re: Yet more 3D work
Re: Yet more 3D work
Re: Shipping low-value goods (was Re: Just say "no" ...)
Re: How many contacts to span the Imperium?
Re: Re Level 0 and CT 
RE: How many contacts to span the Imperium?
Re: Yet more 3D work
Re: Yet more 3D work
RE: How many contacts to span the Imperium?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 11:26:01 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Traveller: Aberrant jump drives (was Re: Just say "no" to lhyd)

In mail you write:

>> This leads to a space travel paradigm similar to the CoDominium and
>> _Mote in God's Eye_ settings; most of space travel is spent moving to
>> and from Alderson points.
>
> True, but I have no clue if Niven & Pournelle ever published their
> notes for the Alderson Drive anywhere, so figuring out where an
> Alderson Point is, your guess is prolly better than mine.  They
> *seem* to be on the order of a few AU's out from the primary (except
> of course for the one in Murcheson's Eye)
  
Actually the people to ask are Pournelle, and the guy who *invented*
the drive for him, Dan Alderson of CalTech. 

Basicly, Pournelle gave him a description of the sort of limits he
wanted the drive to have and Alderson came up with a way to have such a
drive *if* there was a "fifth force". 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 18:13:54 -0400
From: jmaclean@ix.netcom.com
Subject: Re: Traveller economics

Graeme Batho wrote:
- ----------------------------------------------
Our party is about to enter the Sword Worlds cluster in our search for fame and
profit. As a result, I've got a couple of questions for the more economically
minded members of the list.

How hard is it to use Imperial credits, OUTSIDE the Imperium?
The Sword Worlders (and for that matter the Darrians) have their own currency,
right?
I assume that they conduct trade with the Imperium, so there must be some way to
exchange currencies.
Is the money traded like it is on our  stock markets?
Who sets the exchange rates? That is; how do they decide that a Swordworlder
buck is worth half a credit or whatever?
Is it due to market forces, and does that mean that players would be able to
dabble on the money market?
Finally, how is the money backed? Do they use something like the gold standard
(ie the money is issued against gold and precious metal reserves held by the
government), or what?
- ---------------------------------------------

I give a more compelete treatment of this and many other economic topics in GT: Far Trader.

The ease of using Imperial Credits outside the Imperium depends on the amount of trade with the Imperium, the stability of the local currency, and the local laws.  Worlds that trade heavily with the Imperium will have healthy currency exchanges that make it easy to swap one currency for another.  Worlds that don't have a stable currency of their own may use the Cr as a de facto local currency.  In the Real World, your cab driver will accept American dollars in lots of Third World countries because it is a safer store of value than the local currency.  Finally, the local government may have laws mandating a fixed exchange rate for the currency, establishing rules about how much money you can move onto or off of the planet, etc.  Based on my understanding of the Sworld Worlds, they probably each have their own currency.

The exchange rate between currencies can be set one of two ways: through a fixed rate or a flexible rate.  Fixed rates are where the currency issuing institution (usually a gov't but could be a bank or anyone really) publishes an exchange rate and then promises to convert one currency to the other at that rate.  As long as everyone has confidence the issuing institution can keep its promise, things are fine, but if the institution's reserves fall to low levels there may be a "run" on the currency, where people rush to convert their money before the institution folds.  This is very similar to a bank run.  Flexible exchange rates are where the conversion price is set by supply and demand.  If everyone want Imperial Credits so they can order Imperial goods out of the ACME catalog, then the price of the Cr will rise relative to local currency, and vice versa.  If the players chose, they could dabble in the money market.  There are rules for trading currency, pork bellies, or wha!
 te!
!
ver, in Far Trader.

Historically, currencies have been backed by a particular commodity.  The US used gold for a long time.  A sci-fi currency might be backed by something more exotic like lanthanum.  But the price of commodities like gold is set by supply and demand, too, so when gold is scarce the US suffered from deflation* and when gold was plentiful, the US risked inflation.  If you wanted to practice "economic warfare" on such a world, you could import cheap gold (or whatever they use) and potentially trigger a bout of hyper-inflation.  Advanced country modern currencies are back by nothing or everything, depending how you look at it.  In essence, the modern $ (or pound, or euro, or DM) is backed by everything you can buy with a $.  The value of the $ is determeined by supply and demand, so when people want to buy $ denominated assets (things in the US or other countries that use the $) the demand for $ goes up and so does the price.  When the Federal Reservere lowers interest rates the s!
 up!
!
ply of $ goes up and the price goes down.

*There's an intriguing story that the original Wizard of Oz book was actually a turn-of-the-century populist political tract advocating a switch from the gold to the silver standard for the US dollar.  The price of gold had been going up at the end of the century causing deflation, raising the real value of debts.  Farmers and other folks agitated for the silver standard because the value of silver was dropping, which would cause inflation and lower the real value of their debts.  Sounds like a net.rumor, I know, but I heard it on PBS, so it must be true :-)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 18:22:00 -0400
From: jmaclean@ix.netcom.com
Subject: Re: Re: Traveller economics

Leonard Erickson wrote:
- ---------------------------------
> I assume that they conduct trade with the Imperium, so there must be
> some way to exchange currencies.

Simplest way of all. You buy a cargo at one end with Imperial Credits
and sell it at the other end for local money. The *average* of such
transactions is the "real" exchange rate. 

Note that this means that given the right circumstances, the A->B rate
may not be the inverse of the B->A rate. 
- -----------------------------------------

You'd have to give me a *very* good reason to believe this.  In the Real World this doesn't happen any more because of our global currency markets.  I doubt it could even happen in the TU, at least for very long, because of the extraordinary profit opportunity such an event would create.  All it would take would be some banks or even black marketeers to spot this arbitrage opportunity and drive the two prices to parity.  Only a *really* thin currency market could stand something like this existing.  

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 15:20:55 -0700
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" <xrp@sierratel.com>
Subject: Re: Yet more 3D work

> There are currently three pictures of my attempt at modelling Daedalus, the
> British Interplanetary Societ's proposal for an interstellar craft.

Very very good work, I love 'em! Keep it up, you're doing great.

> This 3D business is definately not as easy as Jesse (and others) make it
> look!

"Others" now includes yourself, but I'm still to chicken. Clarisworks &
Graphic Converter are as high end as I play with, although I have toyed with
Photoshop. This 3d stuff looks *hard*.

> ObTrav: Pre-jump spacefaring societies...

A much neglected aspect of Traveller...

> Hmmm.  I think I may just have to find my copy of FF&S and try to come up
> with some specs.

Please do, and render some more "primative" spacecraft. I doubt SJG will
have Jesse work much in that area, so you probably have an open field, and
your work is wonderful. Great contrast to the TL C+ craft we are used to
seeing.

////////////////////////////////////////
Akella 0609 C654474-6 S kk+ hi++ as+ va+ dr+ da+ so@ zh- vi++  A523
IMTU tc++ ?t4 ru@ 3i+(-) c+ jt au@ st- ls+ pi+ ta@ he+

"FGMP, or not FGMP, -- that is the question: --
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles,
And with hot plasma end them?"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 18:21:19 -0400
From: "Micheal D. Peters" <Travelleri@home.com>
Subject: Re: Yet more 3D work

Shane,

All I have to say is that, dispite my wife's constant whi... er, compla....
unheh, suggestion, I guess I haven't spent enough hours at it yet! Those are
darn good! What program are youworking in? I'd guess light wave..? THere's
something about the lighting that reminds me of some of Jesse's work. It one
of the areas tha I really have to work on in Raydream, mostly I just use
defaults (and it shows).

Well I guess we'll let some of these pirate, near-c rock types get a couple
of posts in on our 3d list now ;*)

Mike

- ----- Original Message -----
From: Shane Nicholas Thomas <shane.thomas@bigfoot.com>
To: Traveller Mailing List <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com>
Sent: Friday, October 29, 1999 2:15 PM
Subject: Yet more 3D work


> Jesse has a lot to answer for!  Like a number of others here on the TML,
> his wonderful pictures has made me have a go myself.  Far too many hours
> later, the first fruits are ready for public consumption, praise,
ridicule,
> whatever, and can be seen at
>
> http://traveller.cjb.net/
>
> There are currently three pictures of my attempt at modelling Daedalus,
the
> British Interplanetary Societ's proposal for an interstellar craft.
>
> This 3D business is definately not as easy as Jesse (and others) make it
> look!
>
> ObTrav: Pre-jump spacefaring societies...
>
> Hmmm.  I think I may just have to find my copy of FF&S and try to come up
> with some specs.
>
> Shane
>
> --
> Shane Thomas                      I thought I saw the light at the end of
> shane.thomas@traveller.cjb.net    the tunnel, but it was only a bastard
>                                   with a torch bringing me more work...

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 18:44:25 -0400
From: "Terry Carlino" <carlino@home.com>
Subject: Re: BD Crush Depth (was Freezing in the Aleutians)

Terry Carlino writes:
>> Using GT:V (DR+10)x2.0x10=CD (yards) for heavy frame vehicles (BD)
>> (60+10)x2x10=260 yards for body (40+10)x2x10=240 yards for limbs. I guess
>> the designer slit it down the middle and picked 250 yards. In my original
>> post I used medium frames for BD. Heavy frames come out to:

>Hm...70*2*10 = 1400 yards.  50*2*10 = 1000 yards.
>
>Something tells me you're grouping incorrectly.  60+(10*2*10) = 260, but
that's not >the order the multiplication goes in....

Quite right, quite right. I erroneously assumed that the WinCalculator would
behave like a standard calculator and do operators in the order I inputted
them. Instead the silly thing thinks for you and does operation in order
precedence. I should have checked my numbers.
Corrected numbers:

				DR
Combat Armor		20	(20+10)x1.0x10=300 (yards) medium frame		273 m
Battle Dress		100	(100+10)x2.0x10=2200 (yards) heavy frame		2 km
Improved Battle Dress	120	(120+10)x2.0x10=2600 (yards) heavy frame		2.3 km
Sane Battle Dress		500	(500+10)x2.0x10=10200 (yards) heavy frame		9.2 km
Insane-Battle Dress	1400	(1400+10)x2.0x10=28200 (yards) heavy frame	25 km

				DR
Combat Armor		20	(20+10)x.25x10=75 (yards) .25 extra-light frame	68 m
Battle Dress		100	(100+10)x.5x10=550 (yards) light frame	500 m
Improved Battle Dress	120	(120+10)x.5x10=650 (yards) light frame	590 m
Sane Battle Dress		500	(500+10)x.5x10=2550 (yards) light frame	2.3 km
Insane-Battle Dress	1400	(1400+10)x.5x10=7050 (yards) light frame	6.4 km

So correctly if Scout Expedition dress is light frame then (40+10)x.5x10=250
yards for limbs, which would be the most limiting DR. And which matches the
design in First In. Sorry for the errors.

Terry C

All that is Gold does not glitter
Not all who travel are lost

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 08:44:57 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
Subject: RE:Fellow Traveller

> From: "Brian Makens" 
> The anarchist movement physically had control of
> Barcelona and Catalonia during part of the Spanish
> Civil War, and surprisingly enough it actually was
> one of the better functioning parts of the Republican
> Side...  I don't remember just how much anarchist
> theory got put into practice, but is it really the only
> time the anarchist movement got a hold of a territory.

There were anarchists running around in the Russian Revolution.  Makhno, in
the Ukraine, was one of the best known, though some anarchists disown him. 

At a pinch, you could possibly include Zapata in Mexico.

Basically, anarchism tends to appeal to peasants, who really only want
land, and to be left alone.  

> The Paris Communards were mostly Marxists.

Incorrect.  There were very few French Marxists in 1871.  The Communard
leaders were mostly other types of socialists, like Proudhonists and
Blanquists.  Their destruction left a vacuum the Marxists filled.

Marx was very thrilled by the Commune, even though it wasn't his people
that led it.  It became the 'model' of a socialist state, up until 1917. 
The Soviets in the Russian Revolution were at least partly based on the
Commune, but were pretty much destroyed during the Civil War and the
accompanying famine, and never recovered as autonomous bodies.  OBTRAV: 
What if?

Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 18:57:23 -0400
From: jmaclean@ix.netcom.com
Subject: Re: Shipping low-value goods (was Re: Just say 

Chris Thrash wrote:
>> >Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 16:19:52 -0500 ()
>>From: "Joseph R. Dietrich" 
>>Subject: Re: Just say "no" to lhy for Jump drives
>> 
>>>       Huge change here.  Little fuel to buy, lots of cargo
>>>       space, no problems with unrefined fuel: the rates for
>>>       carrying cargo or passengers would tend to drop.
>>
>>Yes. This is okay, though. I want space travel to be cheaper, and
>>shipments like raw ore or grain to make more sense.
>
>Actually, this doesn't make any more sense in the real world: the
>cost to ship those items is literally more than they cost >themselves. So
>why do they keep moving?
>
>Jim Maclean probably knew all this when we were writing Far Trader, >but I just recently found an explanation that made sense to me in a >book on the economics of shipping. There are two parts:
>
>(1) What are the good worth at their destination? If the cost of the >goods at the source plus the cost of transportation is less than >this, you can always ship at a profit even if transporation costs >are something like 95% of the total. This works particularly well >from low-TL to high-TL worlds, because the higher standard of living >drives the cost of even basic raw materials up (how much do you have >to pay miners or lumberjacks, just so they can make a living?).

  Yes. ;-)
  While writing Far Trader, I figured out that (IIRC) at average US commodity market prices, a dton of wheat cost $1000*.  Since in GT it only costs around $600/pc to ship a dton, you can ship bulk goods off-world without even doubling their price.  Considering that on Earth, we get our air, water, soil, light, and gravity free while an asteroid colony would have to pay for all that, doubling the price seems a bargain.

*This is in GT$ not US$.

>(2) There is a conspiracy on the part of shippers. No, really. >Shipping conferences are organizations of shippers working on a >particular route, designed to head off lethal rate wars by setting >standardized rates that everyone can live with. These conferences >also realize that low-value goods still need to move, so they >deliberately set the rates for high-value goods too high and use the >difference to subsidize low-value goods. Jim explicitly assumes that >something similar operates in Traveller.

Actually, I explicitly assume that there are *no* shipping conferences in Traveller.  I don't have my books with me, but there's a line in the "Competition in the Shipping Industry" sidebar to the effect that Cleon banned such arrangements as combinations in restraint of trade.  Instead there are unstable and informal cartels that enforce their agreements through price and trade wars rather than legally binding arrangements. 

I did this because it made for lots of interesting adventure possibilities and allowed free traders to play a role by smoothing out the price fluctuations that naturally occur in the absence of conferences.  Allowing conferences would have made the justification for Beowulf Free Traders even weaker than it already is.  

If you are looking for a justification for the canonical fixed 1000Cr/dton/jump freight rate you can easily invoke shipping conferences.  I chose to interpret this instead as a useful simplification for game purposes and allowed prices to vary in the advanced trade rules.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 12:20:17 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
Subject: RE: Taxation

On 27 Oct 99, at 21:52, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:

> > From: "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com>
> 
> > Just thought I'd mention this to frighten people. In Western Australia,
> > where I live, the state government is considering raising Stamp Duty (A
> > State Tax) on the forthcoming Goods and Services Tax (A 10% across the
> > board Federal Tax) In other words if this goes through we here in
> > Western Australia will be paying a tax for the priviledge of paying
> > another tax. If this was in Traveller I could imagine a mass revolt.
> 
> In Traveller, there would already have been a mass revolt when the
> government started asking people to give up their guns in response to the
> mass murder in Tasmania.  The PCs would have been involved in finding (or,
> if necessary, creating) evidence that it was actually a conspiracy to get
> the population to disarm itself to pave the way for a coup or off-world
> takeover.    

There was, in a way - the non-compliance rate has been very high. 
Similarly here in NZ the relicencing of fireamrs owners hasn't worked 
well because a very high percentage (exact numbers vary depending on 
who you talk to) simply haven't bothered, even though if you dan't you 
can't handle a firearm AT ALL without committing a fairly expensive 
crime (IIRC up to a $5000 fine and/or 2 years).


- --
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz>
Wellington, New Zealand

A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 12:20:17 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Just say "no" to lhy for Jump drives

On 27 Oct 99, at 16:19, Joseph R. Dietrich wrote:

> >Can the jump capacitors be charged up before exiting
> >jump space?
> 
> I don't like it, but possibly. I am having a hard time thinking of a
> handwave to prevent this. I would like them to have to spend some time in
> realspace between jumps -- but I suppose you could make a ship with a
> power plant so big that you could fill the capacitors in a second anyway
> sooo...
> 
> Hmm. Perhaps each jump requires astrogation observations and calculations
> that can take up to a couple of hours to perform.

TSR's Alternity SFRPG (which owes an aweful lot to Traveller, IMO) has 
it that you lose a 'tachyon charge' during jump that needs to be 
replenished in normal space before you can jump again. Perhaps some 
mechanism like that would be of use.


- --
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz>
Wellington, New Zealand

A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 12:20:18 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
Subject: RE: Taxation

On 27 Oct 99, at 21:58, Antony Farrell wrote:

> Just thought I'd mention this to frighten people. In Western Australia,
> where I live, the state government is considering raising Stamp Duty (A
> State Tax) on the forthcoming Goods and Services Tax (A 10% across the
> board Federal Tax) In other words if this goes through we here in Western
> Australia will be paying a tax for the priviledge of paying another tax.
> If this was in Traveller I could imagine a mass revolt.

In NZ we already pay GST (Goods and Services Tax) of 12.5% on 
everything, including import duties and petrol, alcohol and tobacco 
taxes.


- --
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz>
Wellington, New Zealand

A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 12:20:17 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
Subject: Re: TML Members as resources

On 29 Oct 99, at 0:09, John Buston wrote:

> >> Good grief.  Is there any subject concerning which someone on this list
> >> *doesn't* possess erudite knowledge?
> 
> > of  the life
> >cycle of the tuatara or cave weta, or similar species ?
> 
> >From Earths library data (Encarta) under New Zealand there is a picture
> >of the
> Tuatara lizard/reptile thingy. From the rest of the description I would
> guess at the cave weta being a bat. But no life cycle details.
> 
> Incomplete data of this form should not be tolerated, please have the
> scout crew responsible reassigned to the Zhodani border.
> 
A Cave Weta is a large insect that lives on the walls and ceilings of 
damp caves. They are well known for their habit of falling down the 
back of peoples necks and getting caught up in hair when they are 
distrubed. They are harmless, but look like very large spiders and thus 
freak a fair number of people out. A medium sized specimen would have a 
body about 5cm long and legs that span about 15cm (that's 2 inches and 
6 inches if YTU uses GT :)



- --
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz>
Wellington, New Zealand

A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 12:20:18 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Re Level 0 and CT 

On 28 Oct 99, at 1:19, Keven R. Pittsinger wrote:

> > At 04:45 PM 10/26/99 -0400, you wrote:
> > >Funny, every version of CT I've seen has 0-level skills.... see weapons
> > >expertise (Traveller Book, p21) and the section on default skills,
> > >(ibid,
> > 
> > The version of CT I bought at age 11 or 12 came in a small black box
> > that contained 3 books. I don't own anything called "Traveller Book".
> 
> "The Traveller Book", aka "the BBL", is LBB's 1 through 3 in one 8.5x11
> hardcover book.  I've got a copy of it, and last time I looked in the box,
> only LBB2 of my original set.  *(

It also came out in softcover in blue with a W.H. Keith, Jr painting of 
the Far Traveller on the cover. IIRC this went with _The Traveller 
Adventure_ which had a red cover.


- --
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz>
Wellington, New Zealand

A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 12:20:17 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
Subject: Re: TML Members as resources

Now that I've (mostly) caught up with my TML reading, after a nasty 
attack of RL...

Rupert Boleyn          885A85   Age29
End would be higher, but for a woeful lack of fitness (OTOH if 7 is the 
world average...)
3 terms                   Cr Very few
Administration-0, Computer-2, Leader-0 (all Gamemasters should at least 
this), Medical-0, Tactics-1, Brawling-0, Foil-0, Sword-0 (both would've 
been -1 a few years ago), Pistol-0, Shotgun-0, Rifle-3, Automatic 
Weapons-2, Grenade & Rocket Launchers-0(-1 if you're generous), Wheeled 
Vehicle-0, History (mainly Classical, Medieval and Military)-1, 
Chemistry-0, Biology-0, Physics-0

Once upon a time the science skills would've been higher, and 
Linguistics-1 could have been added (but the computer skill would've 
gone to -0). Typing could also have been added, but I have real trouble 
learning and retaining kinesthetic skills and languages (aside from gun 
skills, which I seem to have a knack for picking up and holding onto).

- --
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz>
Wellington, New Zealand

A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 18:33:17 -0500
From: Shimmergloom <shimmer@mhtc.net>
Subject: Re: Yet more 3D work

"Micheal D. Peters" wrote:

> Well I guess we'll let some of these pirate, near-c rock types get a couple
> of posts in on our 3d list now ;*)

smiles with fondness as he remember his 'inhabited' near-c rock scenario

- ----------------------------------------------
he he he he he he he he he he he he

      Shimmer

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 18:37:03 -0500
From: Shimmergloom <shimmer@mhtc.net>
Subject: Re: Yet more 3D work

any of you 3D gods out there wanna do a custom (charity) job for me?  lol...

I'd like to get a 3D version of the station located at....

www.mhtc.net/~shimmer/p.htm

I like the station, and would love a good model of it.  :)
- ----------------------------------------------
he he he he he he he he he he he he

      Shimmer

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 19:37:52 -0400 (EDT)
From: Robert Prior <robert_prior@sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Shipping low-value goods (was Re: Just say "no" ...)

>Actually, this doesn't make any more sense in the real world: the
>cost to ship those items is literally more than they cost themselves. So
>why do they keep moving?

[snip]

and another reason...

(3) The merchant hulls are going that way anyway, so they might as well
travel with _something_ rather than nothing. Works when shipping bulky
stuff in one direction, smaller more valuable stuff in the other direction
(you might was well fill the difference in space with something, as long as
you can sell it for a few centimes more than you paid).

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 19:37:59 -0400 (EDT)
From: Robert Prior <robert_prior@sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: How many contacts to span the Imperium?

>ASSUME: the U.S. is Order of magnitude( 100,000,000 ),
>and has a contact separation of 5.  Whack 4 zeros off of the
>population, and you have the exponent 10^5.  Log(10^5)=5,
>or
>
>Log( pop digit - 3 ) = separation.
>
>So, a world with billions of people has a separation of
>
>Log( 9 - 3 ) = 6.
>
>And an Empire of 10 trillion people has a separation of
>
>Log( 13 - 3 ) = 10.
>
>What an incredibly low number.  Must be wrong.
>
>-Rob

Note that the US is also a very mobile society. People move very easily,
travel is cheap, and communication is instant.  It might be instructive to
look at a medieval society, as well as an early Victorian society, to see
what different scaling factors (if any) exist.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 16:35:41 -0700
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" <xrp@sierratel.com>
Subject: Re: Re Level 0 and CT 

> It also came out in softcover in blue with a W.H. Keith, Jr painting of 
> the Far Traveller on the cover. IIRC this went with _The Traveller
> Adventure_ which had a red cover.

That's what I have right now, still working on replacing all the LBB's my
roomie lost due to insensetive and careless brother. And you are right on
all above counts.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 19:38:12 -0400 (EDT)
From: Robert Prior <robert_prior@sympatico.ca>
Subject: RE: How many contacts to span the Imperium?

>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Kiri Aradia Morgan [mailto:tiamat@tsoft.com]
>
>> I guess so.  I can link to almost anyone in Japan though...
>> and quite a
>> few in HK and Taiwan...
>
>That makes you one of the 'cross-cultural' links - analogous to the regular
>space travellers (ie PCs) in Traveller.  (See, PCs have many more functions
>that you might expect).

Hm. Thinking through my international contacts, counting one and two
degrees of separation gets me to the Phillipines(2), Taiwan(2), India(2),
Pakistan(2), Iraq(2), Iran(2), Israel(1), Egypt(2), Sri Lanka(2),
Malaysia(1), Nigeria(2), Trinidad(2), Jamaica(2), Barbados(2), Britain(1),
France(1), the Netherlands(1), Ireland(2), Australia(1), New Zealand(2),
Hong Kong (1), Singapore (1), USA (1), Finland (2), Russia (2), Latvia (2),
the Ukraine (2), Greece (2), Turkey (2), Italy (2), Rumania (2), Hungary
(2), Switzerland (2), Germany(2)...

where (1) means I know someone there and (2) means I know someone who knows
people there (in this case because they come from there -- I can probably
add a lot more countries if I actually ask around).  I've only included
people I know well, not just handshakes and email contacts.

I don't consider myself very well travelled, either.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 18:39:47 -0500
From: Shimmergloom <shimmer@mhtc.net>
Subject: Re: Yet more 3D work

Hey, don't feel bad.  At least you get end products.

I really wan to try some of this.  How does one get started?  What software has
the best balance of ease of use and usefulness?  any advice you Masters would
give to anyone foolish enough to think he can join you?

Tommy Grav wrote:

> On Fri, 29 Oct 1999, Shane Nicholas Thomas wrote:
>
> >This 3D business is definately not as easy as Jesse (and others) make it
> >look!
>
> Well you seem to have the business down, for those pictures look very good.
> Nice compsition and realistic lighting.
>
> You are far beyond me in this, and I have used many hours to try to
> understand this, but have a very poor artistic sense. I can get the
> 3D objects to look decent, but have no clue about composition of
> images, so the end product always look disappointing :-(
>
> >Shane
>
> Tommy Grav
> -------------------------------------------------------------
> tommy.grav@astro.uio.no     http://www.uio.no/~tommygr/
> Institute of Astrophysics, UiO, No
> IMTU tn++t4+tg+ ru+ge++ !3i jt+au+st+ls hi++dr-so++zh-sy-sw++
>

- --
- ----------------------------------------------
he he he he he he he he he he he he

      Shimmer

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 18:40:44 -0500
From: Shimmergloom <shimmer@mhtc.net>
Subject: Re: Yet more 3D work

Bruce Johnson wrote:

> Welcome to the club. If we get enough of us into it, think of the loss
> of productivity we'll cause the world!  Heh heh...maybe we'll be able to
> slow the rate of technological change down to Traveller rates ! ;-P

rofl

- ----------------------------------------------
he he he he he he he he he he he he

      Shimmer

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 16:44:41 -0700 (PDT)
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>
Subject: RE: How many contacts to span the Imperium?

On Fri, 29 Oct 1999, Robert Prior wrote:

> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Kiri Aradia Morgan [mailto:tiamat@tsoft.com]
> >
> >> I guess so.  I can link to almost anyone in Japan though...
> >> and quite a
> >> few in HK and Taiwan...
> >
> >That makes you one of the 'cross-cultural' links - analogous to the regular
> >space travellers (ie PCs) in Traveller.  (See, PCs have many more functions
> >that you might expect).
> 
> Hm. Thinking through my international contacts, counting one and two
> degrees of separation gets me to the Phillipines(2), Taiwan(2), India(2),
> Pakistan(2), Iraq(2), Iran(2), Israel(1), Egypt(2), Sri Lanka(2),
> Malaysia(1), Nigeria(2), Trinidad(2), Jamaica(2), Barbados(2), Britain(1),
> France(1), the Netherlands(1), Ireland(2), Australia(1), New Zealand(2),
> Hong Kong (1), Singapore (1), USA (1), Finland (2), Russia (2), Latvia (2),
> the Ukraine (2), Greece (2), Turkey (2), Italy (2), Rumania (2), Hungary
> (2), Switzerland (2), Germany(2)...
> 
> where (1) means I know someone there and (2) means I know someone who knows
> people there (in this case because they come from there -- I can probably
> add a lot more countries if I actually ask around).  I've only included
> people I know well, not just handshakes and email contacts.
> 
> I don't consider myself very well travelled, either.
> 
I'm NOT very well travelled-- I always go back to the same places!  LOL,
you have a lot more contacts outside your country than I do.  OTOH my life
is bisected by the Pacific-- half of it's here in California and the other
half in Japan.  Well, OK, maybe some of it's back in Ohio and Appalachia
where I used to live-- but not much.  I talk to my parents once or twice a
month and to one of my ex-husbands once or twice a week (if he weren't gay
we might still be married, LOL)

So perhaps you'd be more PC-ish and I'd be like one of those people that
always runs the same route between 2-3 planets (in my case, Ohio,
California, Japan, and occasional stops in HK, Taiwan, and Singapore... I
have ONE friend in Indonesia, but we're not as close as we used to be
because she doesn't like Hiroshi.)

Kiri

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN 

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1276
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